Quote of the Day: Is God…

Epicurus Quote

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Software developer by day, scale model builder and wargamer by night.

Posted in Atheism, Quote Of The Day
23 comments on “Quote of the Day: Is God…
  1. Richard@Home says:

    Turns out it might have been a quote by Lucretius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucretius)

  2. Maurice says:

    Interesting quote, and I have heard it before in many forms. It is the age ‘ole “problem of evil”.

    Whenever I hear it I always want to ask specific questions of the “quoter”. But ultimately decide not to do so for various reasons. For without the answers, the quote is just another silly slogan that people love to throw out. So I guess now is a chance to do that as good as any.

    Maybe a non-theist out there can take a hit at them.

    (1) What exactly is evil in a general sense?

    (2) What are some specific examples of general evil?

    (3) What exactly is evil in a personal sense?

    (4) What are some specific examples of personal evil?

    (5) Who gets decides what is and what is not evil?

    (6) and finally, what exactly is God to do against (a) general evil?, and (b) personal evil?

  3. Washington Irving says:

    Who ever said God wanted to prevent evil? He’s like the government. He let’s it happen, then punishes it.

  4. Mafic says:

    If God is willing to allow evil to be done, even with the intention of punishment, does that not then make him malevolent as Epicurus suggests?
    An evil act by it’s very nature surely creates a victim and therefore someone potentially innocent of evil must suffer so that the miscreant can face justice after death.

    A little background on myself if you are interested (and just so you will know I’m not having a go or a dig or anything): I was raised in a christian household by open minded parents who actively sought to appreciate and understand other religions; I was confirmed at 13 into the CofE, but now count myself as agnostic. I find this particular discussion quite fascinating!

  5. Richard@Home says:

    There are some Christians who believe that their god protects the innocent. So therefore there if you are the victim of evil, you are not innocent…

  6. Mafic says:

    An interesting point; I hadn’t considered that point of view. Do you think this strengthens Epicurus’ view of God as malevolent?

  7. Antony Ellis says:

    I would have to agree with Maurice “the quote is just another silly slogan that people love to throw out”

    If God doesnt do x, that means y, but if he intersects x with y that leads to z. We are like ants trying to figure out the motives of a divine almighty being! From a christian perspective God *is* love and unchanging, he established laws for our good, we did as we pleased and then blamed God for the results! Evil happens because there is capacity for it within free-will, shall we all now blame God for giving us that gift (When he *knew* what would happen?). In order for there to be genuine love, long lasting relationships we need *freewill* and that freewill took Jesus to the cross to restore what mankind lost.

  8. kannon says:

    interesting and he also planed every day for every day is for-seen to HIM Im sure that includes the negative, funny invadell’s trying to understand the supreme logic of it all ,makes me smile,free will ha ! he lol @ you .the cross! not what you think.ITS just a way home! … the uncontrolled desire to commit suffering,pain &death {flourishing in the destruction of all living things}evil { is evil when personal is done general comes in effect (good vis/versa) ..think about it..??}..

    Epicurus/deceiver.??????

  9. Antony Ellis says:

    free will :-))

  10. Psh says:

    Are you kidding me? Are you fucking kidding me?! You say this is but a silly slogan, I can say your whole bible is a silly slogan. Where did it come from? Who wrote it? Does anyone know for sure if they wrote it? Are you sure they weren’t all really fucked up on shrooms when it was written? I’d like to tell ya Antony that God gave free will. Free will that people use negatively and then you also say he “\knew” that we would use it badly? So what kind of fucked up asshole will allow an animal outside if he knew it would just be hit by a car?

  11. Well? says:

    Maurice, you say this is a silly slogan?

    1) What exactly is a silly slogan in a general sense?
    2) What are some specific examples of a general silly slogan?
    3) What exactly is a silly slogan in a personal sense?
    4) What are some specific examples of a personal silly slogan?
    5) Who get’s to decide what slogans are silly?
    6) And finally, why are you a fucktard?

    The entire argument of God is based on faith and faith alone. Illogical faith at that. There is no evidence that God exists. The only evidence that could be used to prove God’s existence is evidence that is used to prove that some history in the bible is factual. Proving that history detailed in the bible is factual is not evidence that proves God.

    Finally comes the only other argument that matters. God is unfathomable. Then how does one know that God is omnipotent and a creator or even a forgiving entity that still punishes. You cannot, because such ideas of God are unfathomable. Then one claims they were written in the bible, however those words were written by man meaning it is possible they were flawed. Thus one must go by the word of man what God is or isn’t. God isn’t. How can one believe in something they cannot even understand. In fact, at this point, he is still unfathomable correct? Then how can we know he actually created anything. We wouldn’t understand that.

    So the entire “unfathomable” argument is now debunked and made useless. Let’s say he is omnipotent. The idea of omnipotence is impossible. If God were Omnipotent he would be able to create a being or entity more powerful than Godself that is capable of destroying God and bare it with the intention of Destroying God whereas God would have no chance of defending himself.

    If God were omnipotent, he would also be capable of destroying himself. However, another wondeful argument is that God is everywhere and as is his existence. Could omnipotent trump that? Would that even measure the concept of time?

    At this time it is obvious that God is unfathomable. So what is God? As far as the bible is concerned, something fathomable and unfathomable. But the bible is no proof that God exists, and yet the only proof that God exists. Man is imperfect, so can’t man be wrong?

    Why worship something nobody can understand?

  12. Peter says:

    Consider this, if i recruited a slave, and i told him “you can do whatever you want,” (he now has the bible’s definition of free will) “but unless you do exactly what i say even the things that contradict the other things i tell you to do, without failing to do anything i say, you will be severely punished” the bottom line is that slaves have “free will” but is it truly “free” if when you do what you want you are punished? Anybody who follows the bible is nothing more than a slave to an unknown master.

  13. ASE says:

    This statement is /not/ anti-religious, it is just critical of religions that humanity has created in which the vast majority of the mono-theistic gods are only good.

  14. Richard says:

    No one has free will or every one does, same thing. Every action has a consequence however slight.. the buterfly effect. Some consequences are dire, and some not. Actions result from decisions, decisions from concious thought, or lack there of. If you survive a “bad decision” you learn, if you do not, then others learn. We have the capicity for learning and planning, opposible thumbs and bi-pedal locomotion. Whether you believ in evolution or creation or some hybrid, you probably agree that some force was invovled in our initial creation, accidental or otherwise. In either case we have the ability to be better tomorrow than today, as a choice. How we worship is a choice as well whether mono, bi, tri or poly theistc. Whatever allows you to function. As to evil. I would say one definition might be, that anything that denies anyone freedom of choice is evil, and the one denying that freedom, has by definition put themselves about another by choice. I suspect religion is a quantification of civilized precepts affected by a human need for contorl and self determination. If you think you can control or manipulate your environment, you might “feel better” about it. The more we learn the more sophisticated must be the explainations. The “Owner” of the control defines the outcome through dogma. That would be for inner city gans, the Church, a government or a Cult. Division of labor leads to leadership. real or implied, which leads to power, which leads to corruption, which leads to revolution. I stand by my original precept that free will and decisions implied is where it begins and ends. Everything else is time and change that is not accidental, but in the long term unguided.

  15. JAC says:

    If God supposedly, is omniscient, then it means that God would be aware of what is going to happen before it does. So if God knew the future, why would he leave the forbidden fruit in the garden when he knew that Adam and Eve were going to take the fruit. That doesn’t sound benevolent to me. Also the idea of an omniscient God does away with freewill Anthony.

  16. Richard@Home says:

    JAC, because (according to the bible): God gave Adam and Eve a choice. He gave them free will and they chose to eat the fruit, despite the warning.

    In much the same way we have laws that say ‘though shalt not kill/steal’, we still have murderers and thieves.

    Also, if you want to get metaphysical, if god knows the future then he knows he must put the fruit in the garden for Adam and Eve to eat it otherwise the future wouldn’t be what he knows 😉

  17. Monica says:

    I agree with Mafic on the part in their first comment mentioning the fact that when evil is committed there is a victim, possibly an innocent one. Would you want to hand out dozens of people to be killed my a serial killer who wouldn’t kill if there were no victims just so you can punish him? It hurts the victims and their friends and families, even if the killer gets put to death, because no matter what punishment the killer gets, they’ll never get their friend back. Punishment will never right the wrong.

    I’d like to point out that I’m a proud Athiest.

  18. Gina says:

    Does to be able but not willing to prevent evil truly make God malevolent? Just because He doesn’t stop all evil from happening does that mean He wants it to happen? To be just doesn’t He have to allow man the choice of whether or not to do evil? Otherwise, wouldn’t he be taking away man’s free will? I see it as foolish to say God is wanting evil to be inflicted on people just because He allows humans to make their own decisions in life. If it were the other way around, and God did prevent people from doing evil, man would complain that God was taking away free will. A man’s evil is his problem, and as for God not being benevolent, what do you call Him giving up His only son for the well being of mankind who chose to follow evil and turn from Him? Instead of saying the belief in God is flawed, why not try really looking for the answers with an open mind first?

  19. Paul says:

    There is no logic in reliogion, for religion is not logical, it is as simple as that. You Christians believe that your God protects the weak and the innocent from harm, some of you state that you must not be innocent if you have come to harm or misfortune, this i state is a lie. If Good did protect the innocent from evil than how cane you people explain peadophiles? HMM. And dont give me the rubbish about free will because you will just be contradicting yourselves, again! I was raised catholic and so i know of the bible and of faith, and i know for a fact that the bible and faith is full of contradictions, and to contradict oneself is not logical. I say that there is no God, God is just what insecure and lost people use as an excuse for their sorry pathetic lives.

  20. binni says:

    wether u believe in god or not , most important thing is good karma ..by not ditching someone ,hurting someone ……

  21. Ana Guimarães says:

    You forgot that Satan exists and that all evil comes from him…
    You talk like a fool… just like the Bible says!!
    Sorry, but God does not need you believe in Him to be real, and to prove he is real, only if you seek for him … Than you will know, for sure, that He is God.
    I hope you find this out before it’s too late… take care all of you.

  22. Gunner Williams says:

    The mere fact that you are discussing God, proves His existence, if only in our minds. The universe exists, if only in our minds. The existence of the concept itself makes it reality.

    Unless, of course, you are one of those that believe reality exists beyond our comprehension, and it is in any way similar to what we perceive. In which case, you apparently have not thought it though.

  23. “The mere fact that you are discussing God, proves His existence”

    That is so much nonesense it’s hard to know where to start.

    People discuss all manner of fictional things, Unicorns, Santa Clause, etc. Are you saying they are real too?

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